- [00:07] I’m very excited to introduce you to Nuala Walsh, to share about the behavioral science of standing up and blowing the whistle at work.
- [01:02] In addition to Nuala’s work to get GAABS started, she is a founder of a consultancy called MindEquity which specialized in reputation communications, conduct, culture, and behavior change.
- [03:45] Nuala is a repeat guest on The Brainy Business podcast. She made her first appearance on the GAABS episode.
- [04:22] Nuala shares about her background and who she is.
- [05:46] She does a huge amount of work for sports in the discrimination space. The purpose is to level the playing field for athletics.
- [08:01] Nuala shares how she got into the diversity, equity and inclusion space.
- [09:47] Nuala shares her experiences working with the UN women’s Association, World Athletics, and Football Association.
- [12:38] Melina reflects on a point from Jon Levy’s interview: in business, most hire for competence first, then honesty, and benevolence at some point. Benevolence is actually most important.
- [14:13] Diversity starts with actually hiring diversity (not just have them included in the slate of candidates).
- [15:09] One thing that companies can do is to listen to the recruitment agencies. The change really starts at the top.
- [16:54] Companies should take the outside view and listen to the other groups that have independent objectivity more than themselves.
- [19:02] Nuala shares her research about speaking up at work when seeing wrongdoings. Too many people witness the wrongdoing and stay silent.
- [19:56] Her work really focused on how to get bystanders to act.
- [21:17] 82% of whistleblowers suffer harassment. 60% of those lost their jobs and 17% lost their homes. 10% of those people attempted suicide. That is a high price to pay for speaking up.
- [23:47] In her study, only 10% of people even took the first step of figuring out how to report the problem.
- [26:14] It is only estimated that 1.4% of employees blow the whistle and actually do something.
- [28:24] With a zero-tolerance policy people are not going to be very keen to speak up.
- [31:34] The thing that struck Nuala most in her studies was the number of people that found whistleblowing as an act of courage.
- [33:41] If somebody prevents some kind of disaster you can make a hero out of that story and celebrate them. It recognizes their work without putting anyone else at risk.
- [34:51] When the environment changes, like working from home, people are more likely to report something (or at least say they will)
- [35:21] Using the courage stories as evidence-based tracking is key.
- [38:38] Melina shares her closing thoughts.
- [40:11] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.
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Past Episodes & Other Important Links:
- Texas A&M University Certificate Program
- Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode
- Episode 121: Meet GAABS! Interview with founding members of the Global Association of Applied Behavioral Scientists
- Episode 81: How to Finally Change Your Behavior (So it Sticks)
- Episode 7: Change Management (It’s Still Not About The Cookie)
- Episode 107: How to Have Difficult Conversations About Race & Inequality: Interview with Kwame Christian
- Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode
- Episode 46: Biases Toward Others – Including Groups
- Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode
- Episode 150: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode
- Episode 71: Prefactual Thinking: How to Turn “What If” Into “Why Not” – Behavioral Economics FoundationsPrefactual Thinking
- Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode)