Introduction to the Brainy Business
Melina Palmer: Welcome to episode 563 of the Brainy Business. Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy. In today’s episode, I’m excited to introduce you to Nick Glimsdahl, author of The Heart of Service. Ready? Let’s get started.
Announcer: You are listening to the Brainy Business podcast where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly. Now, here’s your host, Melina Palmer.
The High Failure Rate of AI Initiatives
Melina Palmer: Hello. Hello everyone. My name is Melina Palmer and I want to welcome you to the Brainy Business Podcast. We all know that AI is something that can help us in business when implemented correctly. But how do you know if you’re doing it right? How can you choose the right place to create a project so you can get buy-in from team members and customers and see all those important savings in time, money and more?
Between all the new tools and bold claims, it can feel a bit overwhelming. Should you be automating more, personalizing faster? Are bots helpful or just more frustrating noise? That’s what my guest Nick Glimsdahl and I are discussing in today’s episode. Specifically how AI is changing the customer experience with some stats putting failed initiatives as high as 95%. Yikes.
It’s definitely worth investing in rolling out the right projects and in the right way instead of rushing into something just to be part of the herd. What does work? Research shows it’s the projects that ask better questions upfront and keep the human element front and center. And you know, that is what we are all about here at the Brainy Business. And that’s why I was so excited to have this conversation with Nick today.
So whether you’re leading a team, shaping strategy, or just trying to keep up with what feels like a never-ending wave of tech changes, you’ll leave this conversation with ideas to help you make smarter, more brain-friendly decisions with AI really quickly. Before we get into the conversation, I want to be sure you know that there are links in the show notes for my top related past episodes and books, ways to get in touch and more. It’s all within the app you’re listening to and at thebrainybusiness.com/563. Now let’s jump right in.
Meet Nick Glimsdahl
Melina Palmer: Nick Glimsdahl, welcome to the Brainy Business podcast.
Nick Glimsdahl: Hey, thanks so much. It’s a pleasure being on here.
Melina Palmer: Yeah, super excited to chat with you. We of course have known each other for many years and keep up that network, I guess on LinkedIn more than anything. Shout out to mutual friend Brian Ahearn, who’s a guest, a friend of the show and has been on a few times. This is your first time here, though, so for everyone who doesn’t yet know you, can you share a bit about yourself and the work that you do?
Nick Glimsdahl: Yeah. So I guess, where do I start? We don’t want to spend 30 minutes just talking about me. I just get uncomfortable. It’s like the keynotes that you show up and they talk about me, and about halfway up, I’m like, “Yeah, we’re good to go. Let’s start. Let’s get to the meat of it.”
But so I’ve got a book, it’s called The Heart of Service, and I’m excited to talk about that a little bit today. I also have a podcast called Press 1 for Nick where I interview a boatload of people—300 plus people—anywhere from CEOs, the Starbucks people who led Magic Kingdom at Disney to, you know, the Chris Vosses of the world, the international hostage negotiator, and obviously Melina Palmer, who was one of the great guests there as well. And then I help organizations across the U.S. deliver on contact center experiences. So it’s a little bit about me.
Melina Palmer: Yeah. So did you work in a call center at one point?
Nick Glimsdahl: I did, actually. So it’s interesting. I kind of grew up on the sales side. We focused more on… at one time I was selling cookies, pastries and pizzas. Then I got into selling websites and IT support, transitioned to another company that did IT support, actually in Ohio, where I’m at today.
And then an organization approached me, which is the one I’m at today, about eight years ago, and said, “Hey, I do like your resume and how you’re consistently writing about the customer, you’re consistently writing about just delivering on experience.” I didn’t have customer service in the title, but they kind of leaned into that. And then from customer service, I kind of got more into that customer experience side, employee experience side. And then obviously the last three or four years, more focused on AI.
Balancing Efficiency and Empathy
Nick Glimsdahl: It’s a word that we haven’t talked about at all here in the last couple of years! So I figured, let’s talk about it here today.
Melina Palmer: No, nobody’s even thinking about AI by any means! Yeah, well, I do feel the need to share. I have worked in a call center, and that was, you know, actually at 18 I got a job in an airline’s call center and by 19 I was in there, like what became customer care—those customer relations roles. That person, when you’re angry that your flight was delayed, you call and yell at that person. That was me. You were yelling at 19-year-old me.
Nick Glimsdahl: Yeah, and that’s one thing that’s frustrating for the consumer, but also more the agent is people bring their entire life to that issue. They don’t just bring “I have to reschedule my flight.” But you know, “my kid got a D in Spanish and I’m struggling with this at work and we’re less than a week away from Christmas and I haven’t bought those gifts yet.” So they take all of that out on Melina right at that time and you’re like, “Wait, what did I do? Like, what happened?”
Melina Palmer: Right, yeah, all the stress that builds up often when you have to call and deal with this thing. And you’re the person, even though it’s not your fault that this thing happened, it’s like the person you can vent to.
And so, you know, the thing about working in a call center is some of those calls are quick and easy and there’s this balance between efficiency and doing the right thing and having a good conversation—like for someone to feel like they’re getting that customer service, right? That you understand them and remember them. And maybe it’s like a detail from a CRM and making it feel authentic, but not like I’m reading it out of a CRM. But how am I going to find all these different screens and pieces of data? And also I get marked down if I don’t hit a certain number of calls per hour.
And so that balance… people do not respect enough what it takes to work in a call center. For one, there is a lot of work to be able to balance all of that and be really skilled at it. So that the other side—the person who’s calling in—feels that is the face of the company. And as you said with AI being a big factor here… people want more efficiency, but we want that customer service element. What are your thoughts on that and where some companies either get it right or wrong?
The Problem with Poor AI Implementation
Nick Glimsdahl: Yeah, I think it’s interesting with some organizations earlier on, you think of the chatbot, and the chatbot was typically just a bad experience. You would chat and this pop-up would come back and they’d say, “Hey, how can I help you?” You’re like, “Okay, cool.” And then you start messaging it and it doesn’t get what you want and it’s not configured the right way. And honestly, it’s just poor.
Then you have to get to an agent and that agent is saying, “Hey Melina, how are you? What can I help you with? What’s the last four of your social, street you grew up on, mom’s maiden name?” You’re like, “Listen, I already got authenticated through the chatbot.” And they’re like, “Yeah, but we’re not connected, so can we please just start over?” Right? The more channels that you are switching from one to the next without context, that agent is beyond pissed off, let alone are they bringing their entire life to that moment.
When it comes to AI, some organizations are just saying, “This is going to save me so much money. I’m going to be able to lay off so many people and it’s going to look good for me at the bottom line on Q4.” However, it’s going to create more strain if you’re not focused on outcomes. If it’s not designed the right way and you’re not actually listening to the consumer and the frontline to ask what they actually care about, what’s working for them.
How many applications are open? How can we collapse and consolidate a lot of that? What is the outcome you’re hoping to achieve? Don’t just do it because the C-Suite is saying, “We need AI.” And you’re like, “Great, what does AI mean?” If you don’t have a clear plan or clear objectives, you’re going to get blindsided. A lot of manufacturers are going to marketeer the heck out of you, provide a sweet proof of concept, and then let you go live in the wild. If there’s no ongoing support to maximize that investment, you’re kind of stuck figuring out, waiting for the black panther to show up and eat you alive.
Avoiding the “95% Failure” Trap
Melina Palmer: Yeah, no, definitely. I was also having the visions of every single person that has dealt with “Representative! Representative! Please, please put somebody on here for me!” I just need to talk to a human person. And if you don’t set up the technology properly then you will have that problem.
So some research is saying that as many as 95% of AI initiatives are failing. And that’s here in 2025/2026, so pretty current and it’s effectively the worst that you can have results-wise. How do people avoid being in that space and hopefully growing that so that’s not so terrible?
Nick Glimsdahl: Well, what are the incentives to get it right and who is incentivized to get it right? If it’s the manufacturer, in most cases, the sales rep will get paid on that one-time average contract value. They will not get paid on that ongoing success or the customer lifetime value. So their goal is to get this over the finish line as quick as possible.
In my book The Heart of Service, there’s a section where they are interviewing the vendors and they were not just asking the surface-level questions but they’re asking deeper questions. “What happens if this breaks? Or what’s the model that you use for that?” I would challenge leaders to not just ask ChatGPT to say “Give me the top five questions I should be asking to make sure this is a success,” but actually bring in subject matter experts and dig into the outcomes.
You need to trust but verify. You need to test this out in a pilot or a proof of concept before it actually goes live. I would recommend finding a part of the organization that is going to have the least amount of impact if it doesn’t go well, but also the ability to test effectively. If you can figure out what’s working or calibrate it, then start rolling it out. I think organizations tend to focus on the “big bang” instead of focusing on the small incremental. “Go slow to go fast” is kind of what I would start off with.
Melina Palmer: I fully agree. We’re all about being thoughtful and asking those questions upfront to save you time down the line. If you can be thoughtful to why you’re doing this… maybe we don’t need quite as many people, but hopefully we’re thinking about that customer experience as well as the balance for employees not being totally overwhelmed.
Someone is going to ask the question… back in the day, especially with how they were programmed, chatbots couldn’t pick up on nuance, but potentially they can be better now. I would say like 95% of the time, I don’t want to have to call your call center. But 5% of the time I have to call, and then I really, really want you there. I want you to pick up quickly, understand, empathize, and solve my problem. What about that balance there between efficiency and empathy?
Human Heart and Machine Mastery
Nick Glimsdahl: Yeah, I think anytime there is a gray area in communication, that person on the other end typically goes to the worst-case scenario. Nobody calls into a contact center just saying, “Hey, hope you have a great day, your product’s working, the service is great, talk to you tomorrow!” They call because the house is on fire and they need to “stop, drop, and roll.”
There are things you can do with AI on the front end. If it’s inside the IVR and they know you have an order for a resupply for a CPAP machine, you can authenticate them and say, “Hey, it looks like you’re scheduled for a resupply on December 19th. Would you like to get that started?” You can provide proactive notifications.
Somebody once said this: “A human is the heart and machine is the mastery.” Think of those mundane tasks as a customer service rep where you take 50 interactions a day and just kept saying the same answer over and over. You’re trying to shut them up so that you can get that answered quickly because you’re measured on interaction length. As a consumer, that empathy sucks. There is a balance between the human expectations and having the importance of that speed.
Identifying the First Test Case
Melina Palmer: So if we think about trying to find the test, we don’t want to rush into something. What recommendation would you have for questions people can ask to help pick a test case? Like, what is the thing you hate doing that’s super mundane, or what is super cumbersome? What would your approach be?
Nick Glimsdahl: Yeah, I think you nailed it. When it comes to the low-hanging fruit, you should be interviewing the frontline employees. I would ask each segment: what do you wish that you would have experienced a year ago or today to create a better experience for you? What are the consumers asking? They are the frontline. They are the voice of the customer.
Yes, you can look at your speech and text analytics inside the contact center to see when people are dropping four-letter words, but hearing it straight from the frontline is important. What are the mundane emails I always have to send? What knowledge in an ideal state would you like for it to populate in real-time?
On the supervisor side, you can now score 100% of interactions and go through a checklist. On the knowledge surfacing side, you could just drag and drop or push over an answer and then tweak it as needed. Once you lay all those out, you look at the journey of the customer and the agent and ask, “What could I solve with this?” If you save 45 seconds over an average of two minutes, that’s a significant drop depending on how many calls you make.
Empowering Supervisors and Reducing Burnout
Melina Palmer: I really like that… for the supervisor to get a report of information instead of having to sit and live-listen to calls so intently. If you can have less of them having to do those audits, maybe they just get clips or flagged reports if there’s a problem. Then they are able to save money and invest that time in coaching people instead of just making notes.
Nick Glimsdahl: Yeah, you can get a summary of that interaction, look at the sentiment, and the next steps. You could even translate it in real-time if the customer is speaking Spanish and the supervisor doesn’t. There’s all sorts of crazy technology—voice bots, virtual agents, and now agentic agents.
Melina Palmer: So we want to be more thoughtful about what we want the thing to do. But even the best-laid plans… status quo bias is a real thing. If you just drop a new system on people, they don’t always adopt it. What tips do you have to ensure the team actually improves?
Nick Glimsdahl: I would spend a considerable amount of time on User Acceptance Training (UAT). That is “train the trainer” and “train the supervisor.” I’ve seen cheap or even free implementations on both AI and the contact center, but they ended up paying more on change orders because expectations weren’t set.
The Chloe Chen character in my book—she goes out, she doesn’t know a whole lot about AI, but she goes and asks the frontline about their pain points. They’re like, “Are you just trying to take my job because you’re pushing AI?” But because she brought the frontline in as part of the journey and explained the “why” and the mission, there was no confusion.
The Power of the “Magic Wand” Question
Melina Palmer: One of my favorite questions to ask people is: “What would make you love this?” People usually have nothing but gripes, but if you ask them what the best day looks like where the system does everything imaginable, you find that the thing that would change their life is often super easy to accomplish. Because they came up with it, they are much more bought in.
Nick Glimsdahl: I do love your question more! I’m going to start stealing that one and I’ll put “MP” next to it as a copyright. I think when it comes to consumers, I don’t want to just be the “yes guy.” Instead of saying, “Yeah, we can do that,” you should be saying, “How could I make this simpler for the agent or the consumer?” That’s going to be the differentiator on the sales side—are you just an order taker, or are you a consultative seller who delivers outcomes? AI can search websites and design architecture, but it can’t be human and deliver on those additional questions.
Melina Palmer: Yeah, and people don’t even know… they get stuck in the muck. You can gain knowledge by observing too. Let’s end on a positive note. Do you have an example of someone who has gotten this really right?
Nick Glimsdahl: Yeah, one I was thinking of is in sales where the focus is on “speed to lead.” If you’re an insurance company, it’s hard to tell the difference from one to the next. What differentiates you is the length of time it takes to get a meeting scheduled.
We helped an organization that was on six different applications. It took 26 minutes to get somebody to a human. With integrations and putting in an always-running outbound campaign, we had the conversation started within about a minute and a half. Then there were workflows for the next best action in real-time.
But I always say: focus on AI internally before you focus on AI externally. As a married guy, I use the analogy: “If mommy ain’t happy, nobody happy.” The same is true with your consumers. If the agents are not set up for success, your consumers will feel it. This isn’t an “Easy-Bake Oven”—it’s not set it and forget it. You have to beat the experience you’re having today.
Closing Thoughts and How to Connect
Melina Palmer: I really appreciated the examples in the book where one of the metrics was that the agents were laughing and smiling in a way they hadn’t in months. That is as important a metric as any.
As we close, what’s the biggest gap between what customers want and what companies are building with AI?
Nick Glimsdahl: As a consumer, I want you to meet me on the channel of my choice, I want to feel known and valued, and don’t waste my time. Organizations often build whiz-bang technology that the consumer never asked for. Ask the consumer what they actually want.
Kroger is headquartered in Cincinnati, and I saw an executive doing a ride-along with a delivery person. He just said, “I’m here to listen.” At Amazon, all executives have to sit in the contact center at least once a quarter to hear the voice of the customer. I would recommend every executive do that.
Melina Palmer: Absolutely. At the airline I worked at, the CEO would go be a baggage handler. Seeing what it’s like when bags are late helps executives empathize with the team.
For everyone who is excited to learn more, where should they go?
Nick Glimsdahl: You can find me on LinkedIn—just search for Nick Glimsdahl. You can find the book The Heart of Service on Amazon or at theheartofservice.com. You can also go to YouTube and search for Press 1 for Nick.
Melina Palmer: Thank you again for joining me on the show. It was delightful to chat with you today.
Nick Glimsdahl: Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Melina’s Key Takeaways
Melina Palmer: Thank you again to Nick Glimsdahl for joining me on the show today. AI is only as good as the intention behind it. AI itself isn’t a strategy; it’s a tool. Understanding your customer’s actual journey is non-negotiable. If you skip it, the most advanced AI in the world isn’t going to help you connect; it’s just going to make the disconnect more efficient.
Where are you hoping that AI is going to help your team? Come share what resonated for you on social—you’ll find The Brainy Biz just about everywhere and I’m Melina Palmer on LinkedIn. If you would like help in asking those brainy questions to improve your customer experience, send me an email to melina@thebrainybusiness.com.
Announcer: Thank you for listening to the Brainy Business Podcast. Melina offers virtual strategy sessions, workshops and other services to help businesses be more brain friendly. For more free resources, visit thebrainybusiness.com.
Would you like me to summarize the key actionable steps from Nick Glimsdahl’s advice into a separate checklist for you?
